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catholic challenges Christadelphians


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#21 Guest_composer_*

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 05:50 PM

Janet Selby and her associates refuse to come here and instead want those they accuse to go there -

http://www.network54...u want to know-

#22 Sammo_*

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 09:42 PM

Sorry, I agree you didn¡¦t get this information about our Popes directly from Boettner¡¦s Roman Catholicism. You got them from Wikipedia, and Wikipedia got it from Roman Catholicism. Wikipedia is an internet enclopedia that can be edited by anyone, therefore, it is not reliable. No one should use it for a reference because you cannot be sure where the information came from. This information obviously came from Boettner¡¦s book. I have seen these accusations many times before, and they can always be traced back to Boettner. But I cannot assume that you knew this. So sorry for my presumption. I am sure you wouldn¡¦t use a source well known for its errors.

I don't want to enter any Catholic discussion, but I think you'd find that Wikipedia's pretty up there so far as reliability goes. There was a study comparing scientific entries in Wikipedia and the Encyclopedia Britannica, and they were found to be pretty comparable. Sure history and science are different subjects, but it doesn't seem very likely to me that Wikipedia would be great for science and lousy for history. You can read about the study here: http://news.bbc.co.u...ogy/4530930.stm

Moreover, there are quite a lot of Catholics in the world, and I would imagine that some of the most likely people to look at articles on Catholics would be... Catholics. So the chances of nobody noticing and correcting spurious anti-Catholic information in these articles would have to be mighty slim. You can also check the revision history of these articles to see how they've changed over time - it would be extremely obvious if some angsty Protestant was trying to change an article all the time.

Having said that though, I certainly can't be bothered checking the articles in question.

#23 DownUnder_*

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 08:05 AM

The authority of the Catholic Church is to Christianity what the authority of the Sanhedrin was to Judaism; equally corruptible and dubiously divine. Not withstanding the sincerity of millions of Catholic worshipers down through the ages and the great work that body of believers has done in the world, if we are to consider the authority the institution of the church as infallible then are we to consider the work of the Sanhedrin unquestionable as well?

Christ taught and proved that their is only one sovereign authority in true religion, God the Father. All other intermediate, social and purely human institutions are secondary to that faith relationship between God and the individual believer.

Christ held that God is the sovereign authority over the body of believers, Christianity (the Catholic church) transplants Christ as the redeemer of the Church and presumes to hold those powers which were strictly inherent in the relationship between God and the individual believer.

If the Catholic church is the final authority then it must hold and own it's sins as yet unforgiven.

DU

Edited by DownUnder, 11 December 2006 - 08:07 AM.


#24 Guest_composer_*

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Posted 13 December 2006 - 05:12 AM

As Janet Selby and her co-false accusers don't appear to be making their presence here known, I thought meanwhile as we patiently wait, readers would be interested in a recent Article concerning their self acclaimed holy succession of catholic popes.

Part 1 highlights and Link to Full Part 1 shown below -

Highlights from: Part 1 of 3 - NEXUS Magazine - http://nexusmagazine...es/Papacy1.html by Tony Bushby

The papal office has an unparalleled record of corruption and criminality over the centuries, and the true history of the popes is one of scandals, cruelty, debauchery, reigns of terror, warfare and moral depravity.

Most Catholics go through life and never hear a word of reproach for any pope or member of the clergy. Yet the recorded history of the lives of the clerical hierarchy bears no resemblance to its modern-day portrayal, and the true stories of the popes in particular are among the most misrepresented in religious history. . . .

The real character of the popes as a rule has been so falsely represented that many people don't know that so many popes were not only decadent but were also the most savage and perfidious of military strategists ever known. Cardinal Farley added this comment: . . .

"Some Catholics may find surprises when they read the papal biographies in this book. The part we are accustomed to think of the pope playing in the Church may need a little adjustment." . . .

This comment provides readers with a note of caution in dealing with papal history, but in this biographical history the Holy See did not think it prudent to publish full details of the true nature of the papal court. Its real history is intermingled with "centuries of trafficking in ecclesiastical appointments, deceit, scandals, immorality, aggression, frauds, murder and cruelty, and the true disposition of the popes is knowingly falsely presented by the Church today" (A History of the Popes, Dr Joseph McCabe [1867—1955], C. A. Watts & Co., London, 1939). . . .

Official Catholic records provide extraordinary confessions of wickedness in the whole Christian clergy, and the implications surrounding this knowledge begin to assume major new proportions when considered in light of the central Church claim of unquestionable piety in the clerical hierarchy. . . .

Also of great help in this investigation was the availability of an original version of Diderot's Encyclopédie, a tome that Pope Clement XIII (1758—69) ordered destroyed immediately after its publication in 1759. These documents uniformly report a condition of centuries of extraordinary debasement in the papal hierarchy and, when considered in conjunction with the circumstances of their production, their contents can only be classed as astounding. The pretended holiness and piety of popes as publicly presented today is not represented in the records of history, and that provides proof of the dishonesty of the Church's own portrayal. . . .

. . . . . proof of the dishonesty of the Church's own portrayal. . . .

#25 buckerss

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Posted 13 December 2006 - 03:00 PM

I want to see Ev as Pope. Is he likely to be coming on Sunday morning in a nice white frock and pointy hat???? Please let me know so I can take my camera!

#26 Evangelion

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Posted 13 December 2006 - 03:05 PM

:shy:
'Abba Antony said, "A time is coming when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him saying, 'You are mad, you are not like us.'"'

Ward, Benedicta. The Sayings of the Desert Fathers (2006), Antony 25, p. 5.

Credo.

#27 Guest_composer_*

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Posted 13 December 2006 - 04:24 PM

I received the following in response to the article above regarding the papal atrocities -

At: http://network54.com...p;forumid=31001

Anonymous has replied (with title "Do you hate the "real" Catholic Church?"):

There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church - which is, of course, quite a different thing. These millions can hardly be blamed for hating Catholics because Catholics "adore statues;" because they "put the Blessed Mother on the same level with God"; because they "say indulgence is a permission to commit sin;" because the Pope "is a Fascist;" because the Church "is the defender of Capitalism." If the Church taught or believed any one of these things, it should be hated, but the fact is that the Church does not believe nor teach any one of them. It follows then that the hatred of the millions is directed against error and not against truth. As a matter of fact, if we Catholics believed all of the untruths and lies which were said against the Church, we probably would hate the Church a thousand times more than they do.

If I were not a Catholic, and were looking for the true Church in the world today, I would look for the one Church which did not get along well with the world; in other words, I would look for the Church which the world hates. My reason for doing this would be, that if Christ is in any one of the churches of the world today, He must still be hated as He was when He was on earth in the flesh. If you would find Christ today, then find the Church that does not get along with the world. Look for the Church that is hated by the world, as Christ was hated by the world. Look for the Church which is accused of being behind the times, as Our Lord was accused of being ignorant and never having learned. Look for the Church which men sneer at as socially inferior, as they sneered at Our Lord because He came from Nazareth. Look for the Church which is accused of having a devil, as Our Lord was accused of being possessed by Beelzebub, the Prince of Devils. Look for the Church which the world rejects because it claims it is infallible, as Pilate rejected Christ because he called Himself the Truth. Look for the Church which amid the confusion of conflicting opinions, its members love as they love Christ, and respect its voice as the very voice of its Founder, and the suspicion will grow, that if the Church is unpopular with the spirit of the world, then it is unworldly, and if it is unworldly, it is other-worldly. Since it is other-worldly, it is infinitely loved and infinitely hated as was Christ Himself... the Catholic Church is the only Church existing today which goes back to the time of Christ. History is so very clear on this point, it is curious how many miss its obviousness...

Bishop Fulton J. Sheen, from the Preface to 'Radio Replies,' by Rumble & Carty

#28 buckerss

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Posted 14 December 2006 - 03:43 AM

hey composer, your replies on that board are brilliant, u r really making me smile. U and Ev would make a cracking double act....we need a name....howsabout.....who ya gonna call??... Popebusters!!! hehe

#29 Ackee-n-Saltfish_*

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Posted 20 December 2006 - 10:11 AM

At: http://network54.com...p;forumid=31001

Anonymous has replied (with title "Do you hate the "real" Catholic Church?"):
...
If I were not a Catholic, and were looking for the true Church in the world today, I would look for the one Church which did not get along well with the world; in other words, I would look for the Church which the world hates. My reason for doing this would be, that if Christ is in any one of the churches of the world today, He must still be hated as He was when He was on earth in the flesh. If you would find Christ today, then find the Church that does not get along with the world. Look for the Church that is hated by the world, as Christ was hated by the world. Look for the Church which is accused of being behind the times, as Our Lord was accused of being ignorant and never having learned. Look for the Church which men sneer at as socially inferior, as they sneered at Our Lord because He came from Nazareth. Look for the Church which is accused of having a devil, as Our Lord was accused of being possessed by Beelzebub, the Prince of Devils. Look for the Church which the world rejects because it claims it is infallible, as Pilate rejected Christ because he called Himself the Truth. Look for the Church which amid the confusion of conflicting opinions, its members love as they love Christ, and respect its voice as the very voice of its Founder, and the suspicion will grow, that if the Church is unpopular with the spirit of the world, then it is unworldly, and if it is unworldly, it is other-worldly. Since it is other-worldly, it is infinitely loved and infinitely hated as was Christ Himself...



Depends on who the "world" is. That could describe almost any group from the Catholics to Muslims, even Christadelphians...

Edit: sorry, just realized this was from a week ago. I'm trying to catch up on the boards.

Edited by Ackee-n-Saltfish, 20 December 2006 - 10:13 AM.


#30 Mercia2

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Posted 22 August 2011 - 07:29 AM

catholic challenges Christadelphians

this is a joke, right?
"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” = "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?" = "Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who maketh His angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire" Psalms (104:1) = "They saw what seemed to be flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them." Acts 2 - the secret is over, your ministering angel you need to be saved is the Holy Spirit.

Who Is the Holy Spirit?
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/20950-holy-spirit-mercia/

Mark Of The Beast - his Name is the charachter/image of the medievil popes (now modern man)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/4997-mark-of-the-beast/page__pid__439951__st__120#entry439951

Historicists - Dual Fulfillment (seven thunders = more literal warning)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/14248-historicists-revelation-has-a-dual-fulfillment/

#31 Mercia2

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Posted 22 August 2011 - 01:11 PM

Janet Selby (A catholic) wrote: Don't fool yourself, you don't go by the Bible alone either. You depend on the Christadelphians to tell you what the Bible means. Evangelion is your pseudo-Pope. Actually, no one goes by the Bible alone, although many think that they do. When we read the Bible, we interpret it. When we need help with interpreting the Bible, we go to someone who knows more than we do.


Shall we see what the Bible says about that?
There are over 600 different protestant denominations in the USA. They represent almost 600 different ideas of what the Bible says, in one way or another. The Bible warns many times about the wisdom of men and the fact that we don't think, or reason like God wants us to. We are not to lean to our own understanding.
I Corinthians 2:12,13

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Spirit teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual .

That would be correspondences, exactly what I said the Holy Spirit helps us with impressing those upon my mind (the prerequisite here we first consume the Bible and internalize it). So all those 'Spirit filled' religions CANNOT have the Holy Spirit unless they have read every word of the Bible atleast once AND declared themselves free from inherited ideas. That gets rid of 100% of them.

Janet Selby (A catholic) wrote: Don't fool yourself, you don't go by the Bible alone either. You depend on the Christadelphians to tell you what the Bible means.

Nope

Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Paul refers to the wisdom of men right before he talks about how the Holy Spirit teaches, in I Corinthians 2. He specifically refers to the wisdom of this world coming to naught in verse six.

1 Corinthians 2:6
Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought

I Corinthians 2:10
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

When God gives His Word to us, it includes His thoughts. We can hear God's voice, read God's word and because of the thought patterns in our carnal minds, we do not arrive at the meaning of what God is actually saying. If we don't have the input of the "things of the Spirit," and understand how the Holy Spirit teaches "comparing Spiritual with spiritual," we are left with interpretation accomplished only by the wisdom of men. Yes, the Bible says that we are to study and rightly divide the word of God.

2 Timothy 2:15
Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

It also says we are to add things together correctly.

Isaiah 28:10
For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

But this is impossible in the wisdom of men. Without the teacher of the Bible's input and guidance, we as a people cannot rightly divide and add precept on precept without error on our own. We don't know where we are missing it and what is more important to know than something else. We simply cant get the right understanding of the thought behind the Word! Without the understanding of how the Holy Spirit teaches we are almost as bad off, if not as bad off, as having no teacher at all. If you unknowingly reject how a teacher teaches, you have rejected the teacher and you actually have no teacher.
"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” = "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?" = "Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who maketh His angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire" Psalms (104:1) = "They saw what seemed to be flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them." Acts 2 - the secret is over, your ministering angel you need to be saved is the Holy Spirit.

Who Is the Holy Spirit?
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/20950-holy-spirit-mercia/

Mark Of The Beast - his Name is the charachter/image of the medievil popes (now modern man)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/4997-mark-of-the-beast/page__pid__439951__st__120#entry439951

Historicists - Dual Fulfillment (seven thunders = more literal warning)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/14248-historicists-revelation-has-a-dual-fulfillment/

#32 Flappie

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Posted 22 August 2011 - 05:38 PM

catholic challenges Christadelphians

this is a joke, right?


Dude, the post you're replying to is over four years old, and the author is not members of this forum. Locked :lock:

Edited by Flappie, 22 August 2011 - 05:41 PM.

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