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Mythical Figures Parallel Jesus


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#1 Skeptic

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Posted 12 July 2004 - 08:24 AM

As you can see, I'm moving up in life - progressing from the General to the Specific. Took me over a year to get to this stage. At this rate, I'll have covered all my questions by the time I'm 92... :eek:

As always, I expect there will be a good explanation for the similarities between the following mythical figures and Jesus:

Attis of Phrygia

--Attis was born on December 25 of the Virgin Nana.
--He was considered the savior who was slain for the salvation of mankind.
--His body as bread was eaten by his worshippers
--His priests were “eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven.”
--He was both the Divine Son and the Father.
--On “Black Friday,” he was crucified on a tree, from which his holy blood ran down to redeem the earth.
--He descended into the underworld.
--After three days, Attis was resurrected on March 25 (as tradition held of Jesus) as the “Most High God.


and:

Dionysus/Bacchus

     Dionysus or Bacchus is thought of as being Greek, but he is a remake of the Egyptian god Osiris, whose cult extended throughout a large part of the ancient world for thousands of years.  Dionysus’s religion was well-developed in Thrace, northeast of Greece, and Phrygia, which became Galatia, where Attis also later reigned.  Although a Dionysus is best remembered for the rowdy celebrations in his name, which was Latinized as Bacchus, he had many other functions and contributed several aspects to the Jesus character:

--Dionysus was born of a virgin on December 25 and, as the Holy Child, was placed in a manger.
--He was a traveling teacher who performed miracles.
--He “rode in a triumphal procession on an :gagged:.”
--He was a sacred king killed and eaten in an eucharistic ritual for fecundity and purification.
--Dionysus rose from the dead on March 25.
--He was the God of the Vine, and turned water into wine.
--He was called “King of Kings” and “God of Gods.”
--He was considered the “Only Begotten Son,” Savior,” “Redeemer,” “Sin Bearer,” Anointed One,” and the “Alpha and Omega.”
--He was identified with the Ram or Lamb.
--His sacrificial title of “Dendrites” or “Young Man of the Tree” intimates he was hung on a tree or crucified. 

     As Walker says, Dionysus was “a prototype of Christ with a cult center at Jerusalem,” where during the 1st century BCE he was worshiped by Jews . . . Dionysus/Bacchus’s symbol was “IHS” or “IES,” which became “Iesus” or “Jesus.”  The “IHS” is used to this day in Catholic liturgy and iconography.


and:

Horus/Osiris of Egypt


     In the Egyptian myth, Horus and his once-and-future Father, Osiris, are frequently interchangeable, as in “I and my Father are one.”  Concerning Osiris, Walker says:

          Of all savior-gods worshiped at the beginning of the Christian era, Osiris may have contributed
          more details to the evolving Christ figure than any other.  Already very old in Egypt, Osiris was
          identified with nearly every other Egyptian god and was on the way to absorbing them all.  He
          had well over 200 divine names.  He was called the Lord of Lords, King of Kings, God of Gods. 
         He was the Resurrection and the Life, the Good Shepherd, Eternity and Everlastingness, the god
         who “made men and women to be born again.”  Budge says, “From first to last, Osiris was to the
          Egyptians the god-man who suffered, an died, and rose again, and reigned eternally in heaven. 
          They believed that they would inherit eternal life, just as he had done . . .”
               Osiris’s coming was announced by Three Wise Men: the three stars Mintaka, Anilam, and
          Alnitak in the belt of Orion, which point directly to Osiris’s star in the east, Sirius (Sothis),
          significator of his birth . . .
               Certainly Osiris was a prototypical Messiah, as well as a devoured Host.  His flesh was eaten
          in the form of communion cakes of wheat, the “plant of Truth.” . . . The cult of Osiris contributed
          a  number of ideas and phrases to the Bible.  The 23rd Psalm copied an Egyptian text appealing
          to  Osiris the Good Shepherd to lead the deceased to the “green pastures” and “still waters” of the
          nefer-nefer land, to restore the soul to the body, and to give protection in the valley of the shadow
          of death (the Tuat).  The Lord’s Prayer was prefigured by an Egyptian hymn to Osiris-Amen
          beginning, “O Amen, O Amen, who are in heaven.”  Amen was also invoked at the end of every
         prayer.

     As Col. James Chruchward naively exclaims, “The teachings of Osiris and Jesus are wonderfully alike.  Many passages are identically the same, word for word.”
    
     Osiris was also the god of the vine and a great travelling teacher who civilized the world.  He was the ruler and judge of the dead.  In his passion, Osiris was plotted against and killed by Set and “the 72.”  Like that of Jesus, Osiris’s resurrection served to provide hope to all that they may do likewise and become eternal. 

     Osiris’s “son” or renewed incarnation, Horus, shares the following in common with Jesus:

--Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Merion December 25 in a cave/manger with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.
--His earthly father was named “Seb” (“Joseph”).
--He was of royal descent.
--At at 12, he was a child teacher in the Temple, and at 30, he was baptized having disappeared for 18 years.
--Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus or Iarutana (Jordan) by “Anup the Baptizer” (“John the Baptist”), who was decapitated.
--He had 12 desciples, two of who were his “witnesses” and were named “Anup” and “Aan” (the two “Johns”).
--He performed miracles, exorcised demons and raised El-Azarus (“El-Osiris”), from the dead.
--Horus walked on water.
--His personal epithet was “Iusa,” the “ever-becoming son” of  “Ptah,” the “Father.”  He was thus called “Holy Child.”
--He delivered a “Sermon on the Mount” and his followers recounted the “Sayings of Iusa.”
--Horus was transfigured on the Mount.
--He was crucified between two thieves, buried for three days in a tomb, and resurrected.
--He was also the “Way, the Truth, the Light,” “Messiah,” “God’s Anointed Son,” “the “Son of Man,” the “Good Shepherd,” the “Lamb of God,” the “Word made flesh,” the “Word of Truth,” etc.
--He was “the Fisher” and was associated with the Fish (“Ichthys”), Lamb and Lion.
--He came to fulfill the Law.
--Horus was called “the KRST,” or “Anointed One.”
--Like Jesus, “Horus was supposed to reign one thousand years.”

     Furthermore, inscribed about 3,500 years ago [1500 years before Jesus’ alleged advent] on the walls of the Temple at Luxor were images of the Annunciation, Immaculate Conception, Birth and Adoration of Horus, with Thoth announcing to the Virgin Isis that she will conceive Horus; with Kneph the “Holy Ghost,” impregnating the virgin; and with the infant being attended bh three kings, or magi, bearing gifts.  In addition, in the catacombs at Rome are pictures of the baby Horus being held by the virgin mother Isis—the original “Madonna and Child.” As Massey says:
    
          It was the Gnostic art that reproduced the Hathor-Meri and Horus of Egypt as the Virgin
          and child-Christ of Rome . . . You poor idiotai, said the Gnostics [to the early Christians],
          you have mistaken the mysteries of old for modern history, and accepted literally all that
          was only meant mystically.


and:

Krishna of India

   The similarities between the Christian character and the Indian messiah Krishna number in the hundreds, particularly when the early Christian texts now considered apocrypha are factored in.  It should be noted that a common earlier English spelling of Krishna was “Christna,” which reveals its relation to “Christ.”  Also, in Bengali, Krishna is reputedly “Christos,” which is the same as the Greek for “Christ” and which the soldiers of Alexander the Great called Krishna.  It should be further noted that, as with Jesus, Buddha and Osiris, many people have believed and continue to believe in a historical Krishna.  The following is a partial list of the correspondences between Jesus and Krishna:
--Krishna was born of  the Virgin Devaki (“Divine One”) on December 25.
--His earthly father was a carpenter, who was off in the city paying tax while Krishna was born.
--His birth was signaled by a star in the east and attended by angels and shepherds, at which time he was presented with spices.
--The heavenly hosts danced and sang at his birth.
--He was persecuted by a tyrant who ordered the slaughter of thousands of infants.
--Krishna was anointed on the head with oil by a woman whom he healed.
--He is depicted as having his foot on the head of a serpent.
--He worked miracles and wonders, raising the dead and healing lepers, the deaf and the blind.
--Krishna used parables to teach the people about charity and love, and he “lived poor and he loved the poor.”
--He castigated the clergy, charging them with “ambition and hypocrisy . . . Tradition says he fell victim to their vengeance.”
--Krishna’s “beloved disciple” was Arjuina or Ar-jouan (Jouhn).
--He was transfigured in front of his disciples.
--He gave his disciples the ability to work miracles.
--His path was “strewn with branches.”
--In some traditions he died on a tree or was crucified between two thieves.
--Krishna was killed around the age of 30, and the sun darkened at his death.
--He rose from the dead and ascended to heaven “in the sight of all men.”
--He was depicted on a cross with nail-holes in his feet, as well as having a heart emblem on his clothing.
--Krishna is the “lion of the tribe of Saki.”
--He was called the “Shepherd of God” and considered the “Redeemer,” “Firstborn,” “Sin-Bearer,” “Liberator,” “Universal Word.”
--He was deemed the “Son of God” and “our Lord and Savior,” who came to earth to die for man’s salvation.
--He was the second person of the Trinity.
--His disciples purportedly bestowed upon him the title “Jezeus,” or “Jeseus,” meaning “pure essence.”
--Krishna is to return to judge the dead, riding on a white horse, and to do battle with the “Prince of Evil,” who will desolate the earth.


and:

Mithra of Persia

--Mithra was born of a virgin on December 25 in a cave, and his birth was attended by shepherds bearing gifts.
--He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
--He had 12 companions or disciples.
--Mithra’s followers were promised immortality.
--He performed miracles.
--As the “great bull of the Sun,” Mithra sacrificed himself for world peace.
--He was buried in atomb and after three days rose again.
--His resurrection was celebrated every year.
--He was called “the Good Shepherd” and identified with both the Lamb and the Lion.
--He was considered the “Way, the Truth and the Light,” and the “Logos,” [Word] “Redeemer,” “Savior” and “Messiah.”
--His sacred day was Sunday, the “Lord’s Day,” hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.
--Mithra had his principal festival on what was later to become Easter.
--His religion had a eucharist or “Lord’s Supper,” at which Mithra said, “He who shall nto eat of my body nor drink of my blood so that he may be one with me and I with him, shall not be saved.”
--“His annual sacrifice is the Passover of the Magi, a symbolical atonement of pledge of moral and physical regeneration.”

     Furthermore, the Vatican itself is built upon the papacy of Mithra, and the Christian hierarchy is nearly identical to the Mithraic version it replaced . . .
. . . Virtually all of the elements of the Catholic ritual, from miter to wafer to altar to doxology, are directly taken from earlier Pagan mystery religions.


and:

Zoroaster/Zarathustra

--Zoroaster was born of a virgin and “immaculate conception by a ray of divine reason.”
--He was baptized in a river.
--In his youth he astounded wise men with his wisdom.
--He was tempted in the wilderness by the devil.
--He began his ministry at age 30.
--Zoroaster baptized with water, fire and “holy wind.”
--He cast out demons and restored the sight to a blind man.
--He taught about heaven and hell, and revealed mysteries, including resurrection, judgment, salvation and the apocalypse.
--He had a sacred cup or grail.
--He was slain.
--His religion had a eucharist.
--He was the “Word made flesh.”
--Zoroaster’s followers expected a “second coming” in the virgin-born Saoshynt or Savior, who is to come in 2341 CE and begin his ministry at age 30, ushering in a golden age.


...I'm just curious to know what that answer is. :bye:

Edited by Skeptic, 12 July 2004 - 08:28 AM.


#2 Evangelion

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Posted 12 July 2004 - 09:15 AM

Ooooh! Ooooh! I bags this one! :yoohoo:

Will be back with some answers ASAP, Skeptic. :) Just have to go through my Armoury and collect a few stuffs... :book:
'Abba Antony said, "A time is coming when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him saying, 'You are mad, you are not like us.'"'

Ward, Benedicta. The Sayings of the Desert Fathers (2006), Antony 25, p. 5.

Credo.

#3 Sarah S

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Posted 12 July 2004 - 09:24 AM

Ooooh!  Ooooh!  I bags this one!  :yoohoo:

Will be back with some answers ASAP....

Oh please!

I remember a long and tricksy conversation in Birmingham city centre with an ex-Christadelphian who told me there were loads of people around the Middle East 100BC to 100AD who fitted the criteria of the prophecies made about Jesus. It had knocked his faith so much that he left.

I'd never heard of any in my historical studies, and as we were on the street, he didn't have any evidence to give me, so the conversation was rather aimless and endless. And he never wrote with evidence either, but its stayed in my mind.....

Edited by Sarah S, 12 July 2004 - 09:34 AM.


#4 twoofseven

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Posted 12 July 2004 - 09:26 AM

Ooooh! Ooooh! I bags this one! :yoohoo:

Will be back with some answers ASAP, Skeptic. :) Just have to go through my Armoury and collect a few stuffs... :book:


YAY! I am waiting with bated breath for this! I was so excited to see this post because I have had this exact same question myself.

A few years ago, in an attempt to have a debate with an athiest friend, I found all these same parallels and really couldnt find an answer. The original study was inspired by a hypothesis that all religion should trace back to worship of God, and perhaps Adamic Laws or Noahic Laws, since we are all descended from them. Well, in my opinion anyway.

So I was attempting to somehow link these parallels to the original promises of God to save us, a distortion of truth. But I wasnt able to get my thoughts around this clearly, or find the kind of support I wanted for this hypothesis, so I kind of moved onto other things. But now I get to hear some Ev on the subject. I can hardly wait!

#5 Evangelion

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Posted 12 July 2004 - 09:53 AM

OK... expect an answer some time after dinner (which I usually take @ 6-6:30) this evening. :smart:
'Abba Antony said, "A time is coming when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him saying, 'You are mad, you are not like us.'"'

Ward, Benedicta. The Sayings of the Desert Fathers (2006), Antony 25, p. 5.

Credo.

#6 Evangelion

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Posted 12 July 2004 - 01:03 PM

Attis of Phrygia

--Attis was born on December 25 of the Virgin Nana.


Correct. She conceived when she took the fruit of an almond tree which had grown from the severed genitals of the demon Agdistis.

--He was considered the savior who was slain for the salvation of mankind.


Incorrect. The death of Attis varies according to which story you accept. According to one, he was killed by a boar sent from Zeus. According to the other, he emasculated himself and turned into a tree. :eek: There are no stories which represent him as being slain for the salvation of mankind.

--His body as bread was eaten by his worshippers


Incorrect. This is not found in any version of the myth. In fact, bread and wine were prohibited during the celebration of Attis' festival.

--His priests were “eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven.”


Correct. His priests emasculated themselves, imitating Attis' own self-emasculation (as recorded in the later version of the myth.)

--He was both the Divine Son and the Father.


Incorrect. This is not found in any version of the myth.

--On “Black Friday,” he was crucified on a tree, from which his holy blood ran down to redeem the earth.


Incorrect. This is not found in any version of the myth.

--He descended into the underworld.


Correct. However, Jesus did not.

--After three days, Attis was resurrected on March 25 (as tradition held of Jesus) as the “Most High God.


Incorrect. The resurrection of Attis is not found in any version of the myth. Instead, he is seen as continuing to live as a tree. :rofl1:

The celebration of Attis' festival was not restricted to any single date, but took place on the 15th, 22nd, 24th, 25th, 26th, 27th, and 28th. :book:

Edited by Evangelion, 12 July 2004 - 01:08 PM.

'Abba Antony said, "A time is coming when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him saying, 'You are mad, you are not like us.'"'

Ward, Benedicta. The Sayings of the Desert Fathers (2006), Antony 25, p. 5.

Credo.

#7 Evangelion

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Posted 12 July 2004 - 01:56 PM

Dionysus/Bacchus

[...]

--Dionysus was born of a virgin on December 25 and, as the Holy Child, was placed in a manger.


Incorrect. According to the Roman version, Bacchus was the son of Jupiter, via the seduction of Semele. According to the Greek version, he sprang spontaneously from the thigh of Zeus. Yet another variation has him conceived by Zeus in the womb of Semele (who perishes when she is tricked into approaching Zeus in the full power of his divine manifestation) then rescued from the ashes of Semele and carried in Zeus' thigh, from which he eventually emerges. :eek:

As a child, he was placed in a winnowing basket - not a manger.

--He was a traveling teacher who performed miracles.


Incorrect. He was not a teacher at all, but a warrior who rampaged around the countryside with his followers, killing anyone who opposed him and turning people mad.

--He rode in a triumphal procession on an a ss.


Incorrect. The a ss was Bacchus' regular mode of transport, regardless of the occasion.

--He was a sacred king killed and eaten in an eucharistic ritual for fecundity and purification.


Incorrect. This is not found in any version of the myth.

--Dionysus rose from the dead on March 25.


Incorrect. March the 25th was merely the date on which his festival was celebrated.

In one version of the story Dionysus did indeed appear to rise from the dead; while still a baby, he was torn in pieces by the Titans (sent from Hera) who then boiled and ate him. Before they could finish the job, Zeus appeared and drove them away with his thunderbolts; but by this time, only Dionysus' heart was left. Zeus took the heart and returned it to the womb of Semele, who gave birth to Dionysus a second time.

--He was the God of the Vine, and turned water into wine.


He was indeed the God of the Vine; he may have turned water into wine, but he is more commonly known for spreading the cultivation of existing vines.

--He was called “King of Kings” and “God of Gods.”


Incorrect. This is not found in any version of the myth.

--He was considered the “Only Begotten Son,” Savior,” “Redeemer,” “Sin Bearer,” Anointed One,” and the “Alpha and Omega.”


Incorrect. This is not found in any version of the myth. Indeed, it would be nonsensical to refer to Bacchus as "the only begotten son", since Jupiter had many sons by many different mothers! :rofl1:

--He was identified with the Ram or Lamb.


#1 It makes no sense to say "the ram or lamb", since a ram and a lamb are two entirely different things.

#2 He is identified with the ram because he sometimes had a ram's head.

#3 He is never identified with the lamb.

--His sacrificial title of “Dendrites” or “Young Man of the Tree” intimates he was hung on a tree or crucified.


Incorrect. He is called Dendrites ("Man of the trees") because he was a fertility god and a god of vegetation. He is often depicted with branches and leaves springing from his head.

As Walker says, Dionysus was “a prototype of Christ with a cult center at Jerusalem,” where during the 1st century BCE he was worshiped by Jews . . .


There is no historical evidence to support this assertion.

Dionysus/Bacchus’s symbol was “IHS” or “IES,” which became “Iesus” or “Jesus.”


There is no historical evidence to support this assertion.

The “IHS” is used to this day in Catholic liturgy and iconography.


Irrelevant.
'Abba Antony said, "A time is coming when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him saying, 'You are mad, you are not like us.'"'

Ward, Benedicta. The Sayings of the Desert Fathers (2006), Antony 25, p. 5.

Credo.

#8 Evangelion

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Posted 12 July 2004 - 02:43 PM

Horus/Osiris of Egypt
In the Egyptian myth, Horus and his once-and-future Father, Osiris, are frequently interchangeable, as in “I and my Father are one.”


Incorrect. Both characters are clearly and consistently distinguished from each other. Osiris is even recorded as being killed during a time before Horus is born.

Concerning Osiris, Walker says:

Of all savior-gods worshiped at the beginning of the Christian era, Osiris may have contributed more details to the evolving Christ figure than any other. Already very old in Egypt, Osiris was dentified with nearly every other Egyptian god and was on the way to absorbing them all. He had well over 200 divine names. He was called the Lord of Lords, King of Kings, God of Gods.

He was the Resurrection and the Life, the Good Shepherd, Eternity and Everlastingness, the god who “made men and women to be born again.” Budge says, “From first to last, Osiris was to the Egyptians the god-man who suffered, an died, and rose again, and reigned eternally in heaven.

They believed that they would inherit eternal life, just as he had done . . .” Osiris’s coming was announced by Three Wise Men: the three stars Mintaka, Anilam, and Alnitak in the belt of Orion, which point directly to Osiris’s star in the east, Sirius (Sothis), significator of his birth . . .

Certainly Osiris was a prototypical Messiah, as well as a devoured Host. His flesh was eaten in the form of communion cakes of wheat, the “plant of Truth.” . . .

The cult of Osiris contributed a number of ideas and phrases to the Bible. The 23rd Psalm copied an Egyptian text appealing to Osiris the Good Shepherd to lead the deceased to the “green pastures” and “still waters” of the nefer-nefer land, to restore the soul to the body, and to give protection in the valley of the shadow of death (the Tuat). The Lord’s Prayer was prefigured by an Egyptian hymn to Osiris-Amen beginning, “O Amen, O Amen, who are in heaven.” Amen was also invoked at the end of everyprayer.

As Col. James Chruchward naively exclaims, “The teachings of Osiris and Jesus are wonderfully alike. Many passages are identically the same, word for word.”


These claims are not supported by any authoritative source on Egyptian mythology. They are easy to make (especially when they arrive with no quoted evidence whatsoever, as in this case) but they are impossible to prove.

Osiris was also the god of the vine and a great travelling teacher who civilized the world.


Incorrect. He was a king (not a travelling teacher) who taught winemaking (among other things) and taught law to his people.

He was the ruler and judge of the dead.


Correct. Upon his death, Osiris was sent to the underworld, where he reigned as king.

In his passion, Osiris was plotted against and killed by Set and “the 72.”


Correct. However, this has no relevance to Jesus.

Like that of Jesus, Osiris’s resurrection served to provide hope to all that they may do likewise and become eternal.


Incorrect. Osiris was not resurrected (he remained in the underworld) and since the Egyptians believed in the immortality of the soul (as opposed to resurrection) they saw nothing particularly inspirational in the passage of Osiris from the land of the living to the land of the dead.

Osiris’s “son” or renewed incarnation, Horus, shares the following in common with Jesus:

--Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Merion


Incorrect. Isis impregnated herself with the body of Osiris, which (for whatever reason) was still capable of impregnating her.

December 25


Correct.

in a cave/manger with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.


This claim is not supported by any authoritative source on Egyptian mythology. In fact, Horus is recorded as being born in a swamp.

--His earthly father was named “Seb” (“Joseph”).


Incorrect. Seb was the God of the earth (not an "earthly father") and he was the father of Osiris (not Horus.)

--He was of royal descent.


Correct.

--At at 12, he was a child teacher in the Temple, and at 30, he was baptized having disappeared for 18 years.


This claim is not supported by any authoritative source on Egyptian mythology.

--Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus or Iarutana (Jordan) by “Anup the Baptizer” (“John the Baptist”), who was decapitated.


This claim is not supported by any authoritative source on Egyptian mythology.

--He had 12 desciples, two of who were his “witnesses” and were named “Anup” and “Aan” (the two “Johns”).


This claim is not supported by any authoritative source on Egyptian mythology.

--He performed miracles, exorcised demons and raised El-Azarus (“El-Osiris”), from the dead.


Correct, but then so did many other hero figures. Moreover, none of these events are specific enough to connect Horus with Jesus.

--Horus walked on water.


This claim is not supported by any authoritative source on Egyptian mythology.

--His personal epithet was “Iusa,” the “ever-becoming son” of “Ptah,” the “Father.” He was thus called “Holy Child.”


This claim is not supported by any authoritative source on Egyptian mythology.

--He delivered a “Sermon on the Mount” and his followers recounted the “Sayings of Iusa.”


This claim is not supported by any authoritative source on Egyptian mythology.

--Horus was transfigured on the Mount.


This claim is not supported by any authoritative source on Egyptian mythology.

--He was crucified between two thieves, buried for three days in a tomb, and resurrected.


This claim is not supported by any authoritative source on Egyptian mythology. At one point Horus is bitten by a snake and revived, but that's about as good as it gets.

--He was also the “Way, the Truth, the Light,” “Messiah,” “God’s Anointed Son,” “the “Son of Man,” the “Good Shepherd,” the “Lamb of God,” the “Word made flesh,” the “Word of Truth,” etc.


This claim is not supported by any authoritative source on Egyptian mythology.

--He was “the Fisher” and was associated with the Fish (“Ichthys”), Lamb and Lion.


This claim is not supported by any authoritative source on Egyptian mythology.

--He came to fulfill the Law.


This claim is not supported by any authoritative source on Egyptian mythology.

--Horus was called “the KRST,” or “Anointed One.”


This claim is not supported by any authoritative source on Egyptian mythology.

--Like Jesus, “Horus was supposed to reign one thousand years.”


This claim is not supported by any authoritative source on Egyptian mythology.

Furthermore, inscribed about 3,500 years ago [1500 years before Jesus’ alleged advent] on the walls of the Temple at Luxor were images of the Annunciation, Immaculate Conception, Birth and Adoration of Horus, with Thoth announcing to the Virgin Isis that she will conceive Horus; with Kneph the “Holy Ghost,” impregnating the virgin; and with the infant being attended by three kings, or magi, bearing gifts.


As we have seen, most of these claims are insupportable since they do not accurately reflect the legend of Horus.

Incidentally, these are the temple images in question:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

If you can get "...Annunciation, Immaculate Conception, Birth and Adoration of Horus, with Thoth announcing to the Virgin Isis that she will conceive Horus; with Kneph the 'Holy Ghost,' impregnating the virgin; and with the infant being attended by three kings, or magi, bearing gifts" out of these, you're a better man than I, Gunga Din. :bow:

In addition, in the catacombs at Rome are pictures of the baby Horus being held by the virgin mother Isis—the original “Madonna and Child.”


Mother/child figures appear throughout history, throughout cultures, throughout different civilisations. To claim that one representation has borrowed from another, is meaningless unless a direct parallel can be proved.

As Massey says:

It was the Gnostic art that reproduced the Hathor-Meri and Horus of Egypt as the Virgin and child-Christ of Rome . . . You poor idiotai, said the Gnostics [to the early Christians], you have mistaken the mysteries of old for modern history, and accepted literally all that was only meant mystically.


The Gnostics did indeed say this, but they weren't talking about Osiris and Horus.

Edited by Evangelion, 29 December 2007 - 05:42 PM.

'Abba Antony said, "A time is coming when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him saying, 'You are mad, you are not like us.'"'

Ward, Benedicta. The Sayings of the Desert Fathers (2006), Antony 25, p. 5.

Credo.

#9 Evangelion

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Posted 12 July 2004 - 03:23 PM

Taking a break; back l8r. :bye:
'Abba Antony said, "A time is coming when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him saying, 'You are mad, you are not like us.'"'

Ward, Benedicta. The Sayings of the Desert Fathers (2006), Antony 25, p. 5.

Credo.

#10 Adanac

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Posted 12 July 2004 - 03:39 PM

Good stuff Ev.

I heard that Dec 25 was a popular pagan holiday and Christians at some point in history invented Christmas to divert people from celebrating the pagan holiday. Am I correct?

#11 Flappie

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Posted 12 July 2004 - 03:50 PM

Good stuff Ev.

I heard that Dec 25 was a popular pagan holiday and Christians at some point in history invented Christmas to divert people from celebrating the pagan holiday. Am I correct?

Pagans liked their feasts, pope wanted everyone to be christian, so he decided to find a reason so they could become christian and still have a legit reason for their feasts, to make it easy for them, and just made up some christian feast to accomodate it.

Large part of Europe celebrated winter solstice around that time.


<Digression>Same goes for idolatry really, "gods" were turned into "saints" and all was fine. There are shrines/churches where the way they honoured for example, Artemis, is exactly the same as how they honour Mary now.</Digression>

Edited by Flappie, 12 July 2004 - 03:54 PM.

"The first condition of immortality is death."
Broeders in Christus

#12 Evangelion

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Posted 12 July 2004 - 05:20 PM

Thanks guys. :)

More to follow... :book:
'Abba Antony said, "A time is coming when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him saying, 'You are mad, you are not like us.'"'

Ward, Benedicta. The Sayings of the Desert Fathers (2006), Antony 25, p. 5.

Credo.

#13 Huldah

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Posted 13 July 2004 - 05:47 AM

Good stuff Ev.

I heard that Dec 25 was a popular pagan holiday and Christians at some point in history invented Christmas to divert people from celebrating the pagan holiday. Am I correct?

Apparently so.


I've heard that sort of view also, regarding worshipping on a Sunday.


:popcorn:
"But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life." John 4.14

#14 Cajowa_*

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Posted 13 July 2004 - 06:18 AM

Good stuff Ev.

I heard that Dec 25 was a popular pagan holiday and Christians at some point in history invented Christmas to divert people from celebrating the pagan holiday. Am I correct?

Apparently so.


I've heard that sort of view also, regarding worshipping on a Sunday.


:popcorn:


Both right ... here is a quote from "Two Babylons" by Alexander Hislop!!

"On Christmas Day the Continental saxons offered a boar in sacrifice to the Sun... In Rome a similar observance evidently existed..."

And it goes on tying togethor dome of the traditions of the pagan festivals to the traditions of Christmas!!! :huh:

#15 Evangelion

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Posted 13 July 2004 - 06:25 AM

Rockon Ev. :hadassah:


Thanks m8. :)

This article may be worth pinning in the textual criticism section of the armoury when you're done. What thinkest thou? :popcorn:


Nah, I think we need a new section in the Armoury. I also think we need to divide some of our current sections into subsections.

Christmas, btw, was invented in the 9th century by Catholics. Thats quite a long time after Christ was around. Posted Image And as for Santa Claus? Well he didnt turn up until the 19th century when America decided to comercialise the 4th century Saint Nicholas who was renowned for giving gifts to orphans whilst dressed in white and red bishops robes. :coffee:


:yep:
'Abba Antony said, "A time is coming when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him saying, 'You are mad, you are not like us.'"'

Ward, Benedicta. The Sayings of the Desert Fathers (2006), Antony 25, p. 5.

Credo.

#16 Flappie

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Posted 13 July 2004 - 06:41 AM

First day of the week is saturday evening then?
"The first condition of immortality is death."
Broeders in Christus

#17 Evangelion

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Posted 13 July 2004 - 06:46 AM

Good stuff Ev.

I heard that Dec 25 was a popular pagan holiday and Christians at some point in history invented Christmas to divert people from celebrating the pagan holiday. Am I correct?

Apparently so.


I've heard that sort of view also, regarding worshipping on a Sunday.


:popcorn:


Both right ... here is a quote from "Two Babylons" by Alexander Hislop!!

"On Christmas Day the Continental saxons offered a boar in sacrifice to the Sun... In Rome a similar observance evidently existed..."

And it goes on tying togethor dome of the traditions of the pagan festivals to the traditions of Christmas!!! :huh:


Can I give you a bit of friendly advice, m8? :yoohoo:

Don't use Hislop's book as an authoritative source for anything. :rolleyes:

Click here to learn why. :popcorn:
'Abba Antony said, "A time is coming when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him saying, 'You are mad, you are not like us.'"'

Ward, Benedicta. The Sayings of the Desert Fathers (2006), Antony 25, p. 5.

Credo.

#18 Evangelion

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Posted 13 July 2004 - 06:48 AM

Nah, I think we need a new section in the Armoury.  I also think we need to divide some of our current sections into subsections.

Named? :popcorn:

Mythology, Islam and a few subsections of the Christology section, including Old Testament, New Testament and Historical. :book:
'Abba Antony said, "A time is coming when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him saying, 'You are mad, you are not like us.'"'

Ward, Benedicta. The Sayings of the Desert Fathers (2006), Antony 25, p. 5.

Credo.

#19 Huldah

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Posted 13 July 2004 - 03:52 PM

here is a quote from "Two Babylons" by Alexander Hislop!!

Unfortunately Mr Hislop's book is not totally reliable!
"But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life." John 4.14

#20 Cajowa_*

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Posted 14 July 2004 - 01:51 AM

Evangelion Posted on Jul 13 2004, 12:46 PM

Don't use Hislop's book as an authoritative source for anything.

Click here to learn why. 


Well I have got some reading to do :) :book: :book: :book: ... i had heard vague things about the credibitlity of hislop, now I can learn more!!!

thanks




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