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Masoretic text… vs… the Septuagint


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#1 Pierac

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 11:03 PM



What happens when you get a translator who mistranslates scripture? How about a translation that is the only accepted version allowed to be used? And what if that translation was the only Bible used for over 1000 years. Could one simple mistranslation alter our view on scripture for over 1000 years? You bet your horny Moses!

Medieval artwork sometimes portrays Moses with horns. This depiction derives from Jerome's mistranslation of verses in Exodus 34. Verse 29: "he knew not that his face was horned from the conversation of the Lord." Verse 30: "And Aaron and the children of Israel seeing the face of Moses horned, were afraid to come near." Verse 35: "And they saw that the face of Moses when he came our was horned." Rather than being "horned" Moses face "shone," as in the Old Latin and the Septuagint read.

1)(Qal) send out rays
2) (Hiphil) display (grow) horns (be fully developed).

Qaran is derived from H7161, which is a noun meaning "horn." Jerome took the basic meaning of the word and neglected its derived meaning of "to emit rays." Many times in Hebrew one must assign the meaning of a word based on its context. In Psalm 69:31 qaran is used to describe an ox or young bull. There the translation as "horn" is appropriate. But in Exodus 34:29 qaran is used in conjunction with the phrase "skin of his face." From the context of following versus the meaning as "horns" is not supported. The Apostle Paul understood this to mean "shone" and not "grew horns" as can be seen from 2 Corinthians 3:7-13.

Jerome translated the Latin Vulgate, which was the official bible of the Catholic Church for well over 1000 years.

Take a look at Michelangelo's Moses at the Cistene Chapel Masoretic text… vs… the Septuagint



https://encrypted.go...w=1920&bih=1054

Yes, for over 1000 years the Masoretic text gave us a horney Moses!!!

Now, the time for fun and games are over…. Let’s get down to the biblical truth…... The Masoretic text… vs… the Septuagint

From the cowardice that shrinks from new truth,
From the laziness that is content with half-truths,
From the arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Oh God of Truth, deliver us.

~ Ancient Prayer

#2 Pierac

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 11:15 PM

The oldest translations of the ENTIRE Masoret Tanakh tend to come from the Leningrad Codex of 1008 AD.  There's another from 925 AD, but nothing before that date has all the books of the Tanakh.   So our oldest Masoret texts are from a rather recent date.  There are a few Torahs from further back than that.  There are partial scrolls from further back than that.  But often the translation we generally get is from a text that is only about 1000 years old...

Most Scholars saw the LXX as inferior to the Hebrew Bible called the Masoretic Text (MT). With the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, this all changed. Ancient Hebrew scrolls were found that follow the LXX, not the Masoretic Text. The DSS showed that the LXX had an underlying Hebrew Text that was different from the MT. Now Scholars think the LXX has important readings that are superior to the MT. The LXX is now very important in textual criticism of the Hebrew Bible.

Let's look at some of the key differences between the LXX and the MT where the LXX seems to be superior....

AGE OF LEVITICAL SERVICE...

Numbers 4:3 ; 23; ; 30 ;35; 39

Numbers 8:24

The Septuagint say between 25 and 50 each time. There is no discrepancy!

Edited by Pierac, 27 December 2012 - 11:31 PM.

From the cowardice that shrinks from new truth,
From the laziness that is content with half-truths,
From the arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Oh God of Truth, deliver us.

~ Ancient Prayer

#3 Pierac

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 11:26 PM

So How Many Horsemen?

2 Sam 8:4
1700 horsemen!

1 Chr 18:4
7000 horseman!

The LXX: agrees with both. It reads: 7,000 in both passages



How many years of famine?

2 Sam 24:13 says (7 Years)…

1 Chr 21:12 says (3 Years)


You guessed it…. The LXX reads: 3 years famine in both


Paul

Edited by Pierac, 27 December 2012 - 11:30 PM.

From the cowardice that shrinks from new truth,
From the laziness that is content with half-truths,
From the arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Oh God of Truth, deliver us.

~ Ancient Prayer

#4 Pierac

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 11:43 PM

How many Foremen?

1Ki 5:16 3,300 foremen....

2Chr 2:18 3,600 foremen...

Yet the LLX reads: 3,600 in both passages.
From the cowardice that shrinks from new truth,
From the laziness that is content with half-truths,
From the arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Oh God of Truth, deliver us.

~ Ancient Prayer

#5 Pierac

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 11:58 PM

Here is where Bible attackers have a field day.

II Chronicles 21:20-22:1-2. (KJV)
Jehoram was 32 when he began to reign. He reigned 8 years.
This makes him 40 years old.
His son Ahaziah reined immediately after him. Ahaziah was 42 when he began to reign.
Thus Jehoram’s son was 2 years older than himself

•LXX
II Chronicles 21:20-22:1-2

•21:20 He (Jehoram) was thirty and two years old when he began to reign, and he reigned eight years in Jerusalem. And he departed without honour, and was buried in the city of David, but not in the tombs of the kings. 22:1 And the inhabitants of Jerusalem made Ochozias (AHAZIAH) his youngest son king in his stead: for the band of robbers that came against them, even the Arabians and the Alimazonians, had slain all the elder ones. So Ochozias (AHAZIAH) son of Joram king of Juda reigned.

22:2 Ochozias (AHAZIAH) began to reign when he was twenty years old, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem: and his mother's name was Gotholia, the daughter of Ambri

• Let us now turn to I Kings 16:23, 28-29 in the King James:

• "In the thirty and first year of Asa, King of Judah, began Omri to reign over Israel, twelve years ... So Omri slept with his fathers ... and Ahab his son reigned in his stead. And in the thirty and eighth year of Asa king of Judah began Ahab the son of Omri to reign over Israel.“ Omri began to reign in the 31st year of Asa and reigned 12 years.
• Omri died and his son Ahab began to reign in the 38th year of Asa.

• This means Omri only reigned 7 years and not 12 as we are told at first.

• This is not simply a mistake as to which year of Asa's reign Ahab began to reign in, but in fact the Masoretic text omits several verses between verse 28 and 29 which tell us that Josaphat, son of Asa began to reign. Thus, the Septuagint reads (note that Ambri = Omri, and Achaab = Ahab):

• In the thirty-first year of king Asa, Ambri (Omri) begins to reign over Israel twelve years ... And Ambri (Omri) slept with his fathers ... and Achaab (Ahab) his son reigns in his stead. (And in the eleventh year of Ambri Josaphat the son of Asa reigns...). In the second year of Josaphat king of Juda, Achaab (Ahab) son of Ambri (Omri) reigned over Israel..”

• This means that instead of Ahab reigning at the same time Asa was, he actually reigned while Asa’s son Josaphat reigned. Thus, the Septuagint reads (note that Ambri = Omri, and Achaab = Ahab):

LXX

In the thirty-first year of king Asa, Ambri (Omri) begins to reign over Israel twelve years ... And Ambri (Omri) slept with his fathers ... and Achaab (Ahab) his son reigns in his stead. (And in the eleventh year of Ambri Josaphat the son of Asa reigns...). In the second year of Josaphat king of Juda, Achaab (Ahab) son of Ambri (Omri) reigned over Israel..”


This means that instead of Ahab reigning at the same time Asa was, he actually reigned while Asa’s son Josaphat reigned.


Having fun yet?
Paul

Edited by Pierac, 28 December 2012 - 12:08 AM.

From the cowardice that shrinks from new truth,
From the laziness that is content with half-truths,
From the arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Oh God of Truth, deliver us.

~ Ancient Prayer

#6 Pierac

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 12:12 AM

In the Masoretic Text (and some of our modern Bibles today) Exodus 12:40 reads:
MST: (40) “Now the time that the children of Israel dwelt in Egypt was four hundred and thirty years.”

Note: In other areas of the Masoretic text itself it shows that it was much less (half the time). Footnotes: Josephus, the Samaritan Pentateuch and the Septuagint read "Egypt and Canaan" for 430 years which appears to be correct.

The Jewish historian Josephus who lived at the time of Christ, wrote the Antiquity of the Jews, The Jewish War, and Against Apion. In his book, the Antiquity of the Jews, Josephus interprets the 430 years of Exodus 12:40 as starting with Abraham’s entrance into Canaan and ending at the Exodus. Josephus states:
“They left Egypt in the month of Xanthicus, on the fifteenth day of the lunar month, four hundred and thirty years after our forefather Abraham came into Canaan, but two hundred and fifteen years only after Jacob removed into Egypt” (1830,59; Book 2.15.2).

This follows the Septuagint (LXX) reading of Exodus 12:40 which says, “And the sojourning of the children of Israel, while they sojourned in the land of Egypt and the land of Canaan was four hundred and thirty years”

The Masoretic leaves out “Canaan.”

Galatians 3:15 My brethren, I speak as among men; a man's covenant which is confirmed, no one setteth aside, or changeth any thing in it.   16 Now to Abraham was the promise made, and to his seed. And it said to him, not, to thy seeds, as being many; but to thy seed, as being one, which is the Messiah. 17 And this I say: That the covenant which was previously confirmed by God in the Messiah, the law which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot set it aside, and nullify the promise.




Paul

Edited by Pierac, 08 January 2013 - 10:09 PM.

From the cowardice that shrinks from new truth,
From the laziness that is content with half-truths,
From the arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Oh God of Truth, deliver us.

~ Ancient Prayer

#7 Pierac

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 08:40 PM

Galatians 3:15 My brethren, I speak as among men; a man's covenant which is confirmed, no one setteth aside, or changeth any thing in it. 16 Now to Abraham was the promise made, and to his seed. And it said to him, not, to thy seeds, as being many; but to thy seed, as being one, which is the Messiah. 17 And this I say: That the covenant which was previously confirmed by God in the Messiah, the law which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot set it aside, and nullify the promise...


FOOLS COULD SAY>>>: Jeconiah was cursed and called childless Jer 22:30 Thus saith Jehovah, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days; for no more shall a man of his seed prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling in Judah.

Yet He is an ancestor of Jesus in the new Testament. (Matthew 1:11-12)


YET!!!: The oldest text (The Septuagint) does not say “childless” but reads outcast.” This is not a contradiction. He can be called an outcast and still have children that continue the lineage but not sit upon the throne of David as a royal prince”. (LXX version) Jeremiah 22: 29 Land, land, hear the word of the Lord. 30 Write ye this man an outcast: for there shall none of his seed at all grow up to sit on the throne of David, or as a prince yet in Juda.


Genesis 2: 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made (this makes it unclear whether God worked on the Sabbath or not) LXX reads: Genesis 2: 2 And God finished on the sixth day his works which he made, (this text would clearly mean that God rested on the Sabbath).

Let's read...

Genesis 2: 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made( this makes it unclear whether God worked on the Sabbath or not )

LXX reads: Genesis 2: 2 And God finished on the sixth day his works which he made, ( this text would clearly mean that God rested on the Sabbath).


:newspaper:/>
Paul

Edited by Pierac, 01 January 2013 - 08:41 PM.

From the cowardice that shrinks from new truth,
From the laziness that is content with half-truths,
From the arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Oh God of Truth, deliver us.

~ Ancient Prayer

#8 Pierac

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 10:13 PM

Masoretic text: Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made (this makes it unclear whether God worked on the Sabbath or not)


LXX reads: Genesis 2: 2 And God finished on the sixth day his works which he made, (this text would clearly mean that God rested on the Sabbath)

Paul
From the cowardice that shrinks from new truth,
From the laziness that is content with half-truths,
From the arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Oh God of Truth, deliver us.

~ Ancient Prayer

#9 Pierac

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 10:21 PM

Notice in Luke 3: 36 that Cainan is within the lineage of Christ. But if you go back to the lineage in the Old Testament (in Genesis 11:12), Cainan is not in the lineage.

Yet... The Septuagint does include Cainan and agrees with the book of Luke on the ancestry. It reads: Genesis 11: “12 And Arphaxad lived a hundred and thirty-five years, and begot Cainan. 13 And Arphaxad lived after he had begotten Cainan, four hundred years, and begot sons and daughters, and died. And Cainan lived a hundred and thirty years and begot Sala; and Cainan lived after he had begotten Sala, three hundred and thirty years, and begot sons and daughters, and died



Exodus 1:5 in the Masoretic text says “70” people went into Egypt while Stephen said “75” in Acts 7:14.

The Septuagint states in Exodus 1:5 states that “Seventy-five” people went into Egypt. The Dead Sea scrolls also support this number by saying “Seventy-five.” Stephen was quoting the then known Old Testament (the Septuagint).

Paul

Edited by Pierac, 08 January 2013 - 10:22 PM.

From the cowardice that shrinks from new truth,
From the laziness that is content with half-truths,
From the arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Oh God of Truth, deliver us.

~ Ancient Prayer

#10 Pierac

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 10:30 PM

That Paul relied upon the Septuagint is made strikingly clear from Romans 3.12-18.  This entire passage is contained in one psalm in the Septuagint.

NASB Bible... Rom 3:12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE." 13 "THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE, WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING," "THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS"; 14 "WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS"; 15 "THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD, 16 DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS,
17 AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN." 18 "THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES."

LXX... Psalm 14:3 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become good for nothing, there is none that does good, no not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness; their feet are swift to shed blood: destruction and misery are in their ways; and the way of peace they have not known: there is no fear of God before their eyes.

If Paul were relying upon the Hebrew (Masoretic Text) , he had to string together phrases from six separate locations in this passage: Psalm 14.1-3 (or 53.1-3), 5.9, 140.3, 10.7, Isaiah 59.7-9, and Psalm 36.1.  It would be a remarkable coincidence if Paul - using the Hebrew alone - were to collect just these fragments in just the same order as they appear in the Septuagint.
From the cowardice that shrinks from new truth,
From the laziness that is content with half-truths,
From the arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Oh God of Truth, deliver us.

~ Ancient Prayer

#11 Pierac

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:52 PM

HOW TALL WAS GOLIATH?

The Masoretic 1 Samuel 17:4 says Goliath was 6 cubits and a span, or roughly 9 feet 9 inches.

However, the Septuagint and the Dead Sea Scrolls say 4 cubits and a span, or about 6 feet, 9 inches.

Interestingly, Flavius Josephus (who once was a Jewish Pharisee and a scholar on Jewish History) agrees with the Septuagint as well when he writes “4 cubits and a span”.


Paul
From the cowardice that shrinks from new truth,
From the laziness that is content with half-truths,
From the arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Oh God of Truth, deliver us.

~ Ancient Prayer

#12 Pierac

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 09:01 PM

Did Job’s Children Really Die?

In the book of Job, his children are killed in chapter 1 vs. 18-19, yet later in the book, it appears his children are still alive in Job 19:17 (KJV) “My breath is strange to my wife, though I intreated for the children's sake of mine own body. 18 Yea, young children despised me; I arose, and they spake against me.”

Many modern English translations falsely try to re-translate this into “the brothers or my mother” but that is not in the Hebrew Text. It is simply changed to make sense for modern readers. (See Strong’s Definitions).

The LXX makes it clearer because it specifies that the children were actually his concubine’s sons and not his children from his wife. LXX: 17 “And I besought my wife, and earnestly intreated the sons of my concubines. 18 But they rejected me for ever; whenever I rise up, they speak against me. 19 They that saw me abhorred me: the very persons whom I had loved, rose up against me.”



Paul
From the cowardice that shrinks from new truth,
From the laziness that is content with half-truths,
From the arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Oh God of Truth, deliver us.

~ Ancient Prayer




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