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Holy Spirit (Mercia)


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#21 The Budster

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 06:03 AM

It's not the first time you've been rude to someone claiming to have the Holy Spirit Len.

I wasn't rude, so calling this "not the first time" is begging the question. No rudeness there. Ask Mercia whether he feels insulted or rudely treated. A perfectly non-rude exchange.

Perhaps I should have forgotten about it. I just thought I detected sarcasm in what you wrote.

My guess is that you're interpreting my post through the lens of your personal feelings toward me, which aren't especially fuzzy nor inclined toward giving the benefit of the doubt. I forgive you, of course, but I suggest you look into that. It's good to treat people based on what they're doing right now--not on what they did, or you think they did, in the past. We call that sort of thing "holding grudges," and it's unhealthy: even if you're right, and I did misbehave in the past, holding a grudge is like drinking poison and hoping your enemy will die from it.

Edited by The Budster, 01 May 2012 - 06:03 AM.


#22 Mercia2

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 09:04 AM

even if you're right, and I did misbehave in the past, holding a grudge is like drinking poison and hoping your enemy will die from it.

Huldah is not drinking poison and is not hoping you will die, she is a very special person actually imo.

Mercia clarified that in the latter half of his post he was speaking from the viewpoint of one's guardian angel,

I never said the words "guardian angel" and have never used a combination of those words in my life as far as I can remember, they are misleading. I would ask you to think of the language the Bible uses for angels, not what you read in your local new age book store.

What? Mercia clarified that in the latter half of his post he was speaking from the viewpoint of one's guardian angel, rather than from his own; that bit I clearly misunderstood. The rest of my summary was accurate. What rudeness do you see there, exactly?

I was not offended by anything you said, just to clarify, I do not mind you being rude to me, (even though I did not see it that way), just not rude to the Holy Spirit.

No Len, but once again you're being rude to someone who claims to have the Holy Spirit.

Claimed to have. It does not matter about me now, just you lot.
"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” = "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?" = "Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who maketh His angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire" Psalms (104:1) = "They saw what seemed to be flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them." Acts 2 - the secret is over, your ministering angel you need to be saved is the Holy Spirit.

Who Is the Holy Spirit?
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/20950-holy-spirit-mercia/

Mark Of The Beast - his Name is the charachter/image of the medievil popes (now modern man)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/4997-mark-of-the-beast/page__pid__439951__st__120#entry439951

Historicists - Dual Fulfillment (seven thunders = more literal warning)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/14248-historicists-revelation-has-a-dual-fulfillment/

#23 The Budster

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 09:10 AM

I was not offended by anything you said, just to clarify, I do not mind you being rude to me, (even though I did not see it that way), just not rude to the Holy Spirit.


:thank:

#24 Mercia2

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 01:02 PM

Meanwhile, he is offering for the people at BTDF to learn from him the truth concerning angels and the Holy Spirit, and so be saved. However, he doubts that anyone will listen, on account of being blinded to his message by their conviction that the teaching of their (Christadelphian) church is correct.

Not really, because that would imply that Christadelphian understanding of the Bible on this matter is different than mine. Yet reading Christadelphian material on the Holy Spirit today is no different to reading Fortigurns posts on how to interpret Genesis 1 in 2003. Neither followed through with the obvious conclusions of their own statements at the time. Seems to me the most obvious things are painfully slow for some to finally accept, so what causes that?

Let me re-state it as clearly as possible, it is not hard.

1. Christadelphians say the Holy Spirit is "Gods power" (that is an effect), it is a bit like someone asking me what the word "army" means and I reply "the States power", a more accurate reply in context would be "lots of men", so likewise a more accurate reply for what the Holy Spirit is would be "the great company of Gods angels", so it is not an unusual concept to have one word that expresses such a concept. So for somereason Christadelphians have left what the Holy Spirit is, undefined, despite the rest of your theology clearly revealing the Holy Spirit is used for angels, one such example of the Angel of his presence, in other examples we learn that the "Holy Spirit" performs the exact same role as our "ministering angel" and just to completely confirm the obvious, we then have NT symbolism of tongues/flames of fire matching OT symbolism for Gods ministering angels. The outpouring of the Holy Spirit is the out pouring of ministering angels. The fact they are poured out along with atleast 4 other mentions expressing the fact we are talking about a vast number here, i.e "myriads and myriads", "tens thousands and thousands...", "innumeralbe" is logical proof that this cannot just refer to the events of Pentecost alone because their were not millions of Christians in 34AD.

2. There is no mystery in the Bible or theology from silence. If you cannot see what is totally obvious you need to ask yourselves why? No one will turn up here with another interpretation of the Holy Spirit from the Bible, (because none exist), therefore, as I have stated very clearly, their are no mysteries, if the Bible tells us the angels are Gods power and the Holy Spirit is Gods power it is because they are two ways of expressing the same thing. If the Bible calls the angel of his prescence the Holy Spirit you cannot therefore attempt to make an unknowable mystery from a plain revealing fact. It is infact impossible to make a mystery out of what the concept of the Holy Spirit is, the only slightly veiled implication related to the Holy Spirit is when Jesus says the Holy Spirit cannot come until after He is gone, which is intentionally implying a relationship between Jesus and the Holy Spirit, but Jesus is the Holiest Spirit and as your ministering angel comes in His Name (did with me), then so it is said, "Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me."

3. There is a difference between having the Holy Spirit in all fullness and having the Holy Spirit partially, at times, inspiring you on occassion, as David. When the angel spoke to me in 1982, he dictated, like a boss would dictate to his security who would then write it down. This was because I was a child, I was pure, a holy angel could be in my prescence that openly, when Jesus says these words are not my own but Gods, that is because His ministering angel, or angels where dictating to Him as above and He was then saying them out loud (exactly what happened to me). This is how it works, yet David for example, was a sinner, he must have still had a good heart but because he was a sinner he did not have the Holy Spirit as Christ did, or even as I did as a child. If you read the Psalms carefully you will see he had the Holy Spirit, like perhaps I would today. Most of the time his writings are not inspired, but every now and then the Holy Spirit impresses inspiration upon his mind that come out in the form of typological prophecies etc.

Let me tell you about the potential of prayer if you are pure and Godly from two examples in my childhood, both of which if happened to a Christadelphian today would remove all doubt/free will, which God will not do if you cannot handle it, or do not really want it.

The first example it was mid afternoon and I was alone in the living room. In the cabinet there was crucifix/rosery beads that the pope had given my father, along with a large papal coin in a purple velvet type box, because the pope had touched it I would go to the cabinet and stare at it in awe. On that day as I was looking the crucifix melted infront of me into the shape of a Nazi swastika symbol, not literally, but it was a very powerful vision and I mean very powerful. No abiguity or denial possible. I was obviously troubled at this for a few moments so I ran upstairs into corner of my mothers room where I always used to pray alone and I said "please God help me what does this mean" or words to that effect and I was immediately told not to let is concern me now but it was something I would remember as an adult and understand. Immediately I felt a huge wait lift off my shoulders and I said "thankyou" and ran off playing happily as child.

The next example was around the same time, just before the first example above I think, and it concerned the other object the pope had given my father, the large guilt gold coloured papal coin. Again, I had been praying with it as the pope had touched it and I had a moment of doubt and said out loud "is this really Holy because the pope touched it" and it immediately felt absolutely disgusting in my hand so much so I had to get it away from me and threw it to the other side of the room and shouted "yuk". Now that was more like an electric shock it was such a powerful answer to that prayer.

So why does God not answer any of our prayers like that anymore? The answer is actually really sad but the Bible reveals it very clearly, in as much as David was a sinner and because of this a Holy Spirit just cannot stay in his prescence for long, that is not to say not at all, but Christ had the Holy Spirit like no other because He was pure, He was not a sinner, the Holy could abide in His prescence, infact He became more Holy and mighty than the ministering angels who ministered to Him for that reason.

Now in light of all the above let me tell you what YOUR religion is all about. Why are we to be pure? Why are we to be Holy? Because only then can God via His angels live amongst us. Here is what it is all about, "But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth" Gen 8;9. Did you get that? The Holy Spirit (Gods great company of ministering angels) cannot abide with wicked waters and the entire Bible is about conforming us to their Spirit in order that the dove/Holy Spirit finds rest on this earth, with us.

What I have also learned is that the repression of child hood memories or perhaps bad things which can happen to you as a child can be controlled by your angel. So if you cannot remember something it may be to protect you, I think psychologists call this 'repressed memory syndrome' but have no explanation for it. Certainly in my case, because I had been shown a vision of the metaphor of Satan in order to teach me something about the RCC and the pope, the angel told me he would "put a veil of forgetfullness over me" until the moment I asked for the Holy Spirit in my adult life and "the veil would be removed" and I would remember all this and the instructions given as clear as yesterday, that moment.

I just thought I detected sarcasm in what you wrote.

You did, there was a bit dry sarcasm in their, the assumption my friends think I am mad (which is why he misread it), although it was not that clear I was talking from his ministering angels perspective. He also attempted to put me in his 'wacky new ager type' pigeon hole box by appealing to rediculous extremes (a common CD tactic), i.e my "guardian angel". I never use such language, I stay well away from any book that talk of guardian angels probably as much as he does, yet all this is part of the course when talking to most CDs about this Bible reality, as I say, it is just half way to athiesm and unbelief imo.

All I am asking you to do it reach the obvious conclusion of your own undefined theology of what the Holy Spirit is. Once you do that the mystery is removed and in private, alone, Christadelphians will be praying for guidance from their ministering spirit in droves, the sincere ones who actually care more about what the Bible reveals than the confort of tradition and not causing a stir, their is no reason to change anything. Just complete what your founders left undefined, which I am here to define very clearly for you.

Here is a simple question, if Christadelphians pray to God for help in understanding the Bible, as they did at the start of each lesson I had with you, then how do you think such prayers are answered? Gods power? If you cannot answer this, then this alone should demonstrate you have a problem. Witnessing gifts have ceased, the Holy Spirit may infact be incredibly rare these days, I just do not know, but what I do know is all of the above is true and is my testimony to you, for reason.
"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” = "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?" = "Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who maketh His angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire" Psalms (104:1) = "They saw what seemed to be flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them." Acts 2 - the secret is over, your ministering angel you need to be saved is the Holy Spirit.

Who Is the Holy Spirit?
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/20950-holy-spirit-mercia/

Mark Of The Beast - his Name is the charachter/image of the medievil popes (now modern man)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/4997-mark-of-the-beast/page__pid__439951__st__120#entry439951

Historicists - Dual Fulfillment (seven thunders = more literal warning)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/14248-historicists-revelation-has-a-dual-fulfillment/

#25 Mercia2

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 01:07 PM

If you are wondering why does God/the Bible call the great company of Gods ministering angels "the Holy Spirit" in the singular, it is obvious. The same reason you Christadelphian explain God manifestation, i.e they may be many angels but they all have One Holy Spirit. To God they are the Holy Spirit and for us God is the Divine Image/character/spirit. That is why when an angel speaks to man it is said to be God (in that context), because His Name is in them.
"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” = "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?" = "Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who maketh His angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire" Psalms (104:1) = "They saw what seemed to be flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them." Acts 2 - the secret is over, your ministering angel you need to be saved is the Holy Spirit.

Who Is the Holy Spirit?
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/20950-holy-spirit-mercia/

Mark Of The Beast - his Name is the charachter/image of the medievil popes (now modern man)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/4997-mark-of-the-beast/page__pid__439951__st__120#entry439951

Historicists - Dual Fulfillment (seven thunders = more literal warning)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/14248-historicists-revelation-has-a-dual-fulfillment/

#26 The Budster

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 01:34 PM

You did, there was a bit dry sarcasm in their, the assumption my friends think I am mad (which is why he misread it), although it was not that clear I was talking from his ministering angels perspective.

It just wasn't clear to me that you were speaking from a new perspective not your own, so I thought you were speaking of your own friends. That's all.

He also attempted to put me in his 'wacky new ager type' pigeon hole box by appealing to rediculous extremes (a common CD tactic), i.e my "guardian angel"...

No, I wasn't trying to do that. Plenty of Christadelphians use the term "guardian angel," and they're the furthest thing from "wacky new agers." I don't necessarily agree with them, but I have no special quarrel with them--and the phrase "guardian angel" doesn't really have any associations for me, positive or negative, so I used it without realizing it would have a negative connotation for you.

I never use such language, I stay well away from any book that talk of guardian angels probably as much as he does...

Understood; I'll remember that. I don't avoid that terminology--in fact I don't have any preferred terminology, because I don't dabble much in angelology. So I'm likely to use terms quite freely and carelessly most of the time, and to speak in somewhat broad and general terms.

yet all this is part of the course when talking to most CDs about this Bible reality, as I say, it is just half way to athiesm and unbelief imo.

That last statement I don't quite understand, because you regularly say things that indicate that you mostly agree with Christadelphians, and that you think they're more or less right on most things. It's statements like this that sound to me as if you're saying that Christadelphians are "halfway to atheism and unbelief," which sounds very different from something you'd mostly agree with. So it's not really clear to me what you think of Christadelphians. That's probably why I understood your remarks about "organized religion" as suggesting that Christadelphians are blinded to truth by their adherence to their church's creed.

All I am asking you to do it reach the obvious conclusion of your own undefined theology of what the Holy Spirit is. Once you do that the mystery is removed and in private, alone, Christadelphians will be praying for guidance from their ministering spirit in droves...

I can't say I agree with all you say about angels or the Holy Spirit, but I can't say I have much quarrel with you either. The Bible is rather vague about both topics, and there are Christadelphians who believe they have watching angels, and also an indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Since the Bible is rather vague on these points, and says things that are somewhat supportive of those views, I simply can't and wouldn't argue with them.

If people claim to have gifts such as healing or tongues, I will happily put them to the test, because I would tend to doubt their claims. I believe that if Jesus walked among us today, his healings would be real: we would see people with documented cases of cancer, proven to be cancer free. I don't think Jesus' healings would be like the faith healers', which are long on hearsay and short on proof. So if anyone claimed to have such gifts, I would only believe him after he proved it.

Here is a simple question, if Christadelphians pray to God for help in understanding the Bible, as they did at the start of each lesson I had with you, then how do you think such prayers are answered? ...

Personally I recognize that we're quite vague on that point, and mostly I'm content to let it be so. When the Bible paints with broad brush-strokes, I'm very reluctant to come along with a fine-point pen and try to draw the outlines--I'd expect to get it wrong, and ruin a work of art in the process. I don't believe that prevents me from being a full Christian, because I believe that if God really wanted me to have a certain belief on the subject, He would have spelled it out plainly.

#27 Huldah

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 05:47 PM

My guess is that you're interpreting my post through the lens of your personal feelings toward me, which aren't especially fuzzy nor inclined toward giving the benefit of the doubt. I forgive you, of course, but I suggest you look into that. It's good to treat people based on what they're doing right now--not on what they did, or you think they did, in the past. We call that sort of thing "holding grudges," and it's unhealthy: even if you're right, and I did misbehave in the past, holding a grudge is like drinking poison and hoping your enemy will die from it.

Len, I don't have a grudge. No you aren't exactly flavour of the month with me that bit is true, but it doesn't mean that I have a grudge so you can take that idea back. I found you rude because I found you what you wrote rude even if Mercia didn't, not because there is a grudge of any kind.

Incidentally I find it rather high handed that you are giving me this kind of advice and talking about forgiveness, when *you* are the one with a grudge problem. You have blocked me on facebook for no good reason other than that you are offended by my husband and have blocked him. If I really had a grudge against you, I'd just block you.

Edited by Huldah, 01 May 2012 - 05:51 PM.

"But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life." John 4.14

#28 The Budster

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 07:55 PM

I found you rude because I found you what you wrote rude even if Mercia didn't...

OK. Misunderstandings happen.

Incidentally I find it rather high handed that you are giving me this kind of advice and talking about forgiveness, when *you* are the one with a grudge problem. You have blocked me on facebook for no good reason other than that you are offended by my husband and have blocked him. If I really had a grudge against you, I'd just block you.

You are right, Huldah: I should have told you what I was doing and why, and I wronged you when I failed to do that. I apologize.

I explained to your husband why I was going to block him, something like a week in advance, and gave him plenty of time to communicate with me if he wanted to work things out. He appeared amused by this. In any case, I finally put it into effect. Then, quite thoughtlessly, I included you, for no better reason than you both are in the same household and I'd as soon he not read my posts over your shoulder either. It was in no way meant against you, and I mistreated you by not at least telling you that, in advance, as I did your husband. Please forgive me.

#29 Huldah

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 09:06 PM

OK Len. Thank you for explaining.
"But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life." John 4.14

#30 Mercia2

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 09:43 PM

No, I wasn't trying to do that. Plenty of Christadelphians use the term "guardian angel," and they're the furthest thing from "wacky new agers." I don't necessarily agree with them, but I have no special quarrel with them--and the phrase "guardian angel" doesn't really have any associations for me, positive or negative, so I used it without realizing it would have a negative connotation for you.

Ok, I do not like the word because it implies the angel guards you physically, but I believe when it says the angel guards the camp of Israel, it means spiritually, i.e from false doctrine etc, that would be in the same context as angels stated role, i.e "are they not all ministering spirits sent to minister to those who will inherit salvation". Some would disagree and say they are to guard you physically as well, but if you believe that then how can angels protect certain people physically and not others? Children for example? Why did angels not physically intervene to save Christadelphian youngsters who tragically die? I believe your ministering angel will guard you spiritually, from false teachings and will strengthen you in moments of heartache and loss.

If people claim to have gifts such as healing or tongues, I will happily put them to the test, because I would tend to doubt their claims

So would I Len, not least because I believe Jesus healed people physically to symbollically represent how He will heal us spiritually and it is in that context healing matters. Obviously this being related to the healing of the blind etc.
What we have in the world is a false Holy Spirit manifestation, which I believe is referred to in (Rev 13:13), but because their is a false Holy Spirit manifestation does not the Holy Spirit cannot be available anymore. I agree it is not available for witnessing signs, not for healing the sick, just for plain old helping us understand Gods Word, when we pray for that help, nothing more. If you believe God is working through men to make the prophecies related to Israel come to pass, then that is via Gods power, His Holy Spirit/His angels, working in this world in our day.

That last statement I don't quite understand, because you regularly say things that indicate that you mostly agree with Christadelphians, and that you think they're more or less right on most things. It's statements like this that sound to me as if you're saying that Christadelphians are "halfway to atheism and unbelief," which sounds very different from something you'd mostly agree with.

No, I only meant that in one context, alot of Christadelphians seem to want to minimise the supernatural (for want of a better word), from their belief system, which cannot be done. We cannot reduce God/His angels/power just to the Bible alone, I know you would disagree that you do that, but I always see signs and fear that is what some do, I thought I detected it in Kens thinking a couple of days ago. Now I love the fact that Christadelphianism is such a rational and logical faith, but just becareful not to take what you think is rational and logical too far. There are potentially millions of "ministering angels", they are somewhere, right now.

Personally I recognize that we're quite vague on that point, and mostly I'm content to let it be so. When the Bible paints with broad brush-strokes, I'm very reluctant to come along with a fine-point pen and try to draw the outlines--I'd expect to get it wrong, and ruin a work of art in the process. I don't believe that prevents me from being a full Christian, because I believe that if God really wanted me to have a certain belief on the subject, He would have spelled it out plainly.

Len, with respect that is a total cop out. I used to say almost those exact words to myself as well whenever I was really thinking in my mind 'blimey, thats a hard one and it would mean I have to really focus which will hurt my brain". So here is the solution, say a sincere prayer to God to help you and really focus and what seems like a bit of a confusing fog will clear and it will become very apparant. It is one of those really important subjects so you owe yourself that.

Personally I recognize that we're quite vague on that point, and mostly I'm content to let it be so.

Len, you cannot be vague on how prayers are answered! What does your own theology say? Gods power! What is Gods power? The Holy Spirit, what is the Holy Spirit? Your ministering angels. Problem solved!

Here is a good way of expressing it. In Genesis 8 their is a raven and a dove. You believe that the Satan is a personfication of sin, yet can represent literal people, so in complete harmony with that personification idea the Holy Spirit is the personification of the opposite concept and falling under the umbrella of that concept/personification is Gods great company of angels/holy spirits.

I explained to your husband why I was going to block him, something like a week in advance, and gave him plenty of time to communicate with me if he wanted to work things out. He appeared amused by this.

Come on chaps, I am sure whatever the problem is you can both work it out. :friends:

Edited by Mercia2, 02 May 2012 - 03:51 PM.

"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” = "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?" = "Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who maketh His angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire" Psalms (104:1) = "They saw what seemed to be flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them." Acts 2 - the secret is over, your ministering angel you need to be saved is the Holy Spirit.

Who Is the Holy Spirit?
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/20950-holy-spirit-mercia/

Mark Of The Beast - his Name is the charachter/image of the medievil popes (now modern man)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/4997-mark-of-the-beast/page__pid__439951__st__120#entry439951

Historicists - Dual Fulfillment (seven thunders = more literal warning)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/14248-historicists-revelation-has-a-dual-fulfillment/

#31 Mercia2

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 09:55 PM

Here is a good way of expressing it. In Genesis 8 their is a raven and a dove. You believe that the Satan is a personfication of sin, yet can represent literal people, so in complete harmony with that personification idea the Holy Spirit is the personification of the opposite concept and falling under the umbrella of that concept/personification is Gods great company of angels/holy spirits.
"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” = "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?" = "Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who maketh His angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire" Psalms (104:1) = "They saw what seemed to be flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them." Acts 2 - the secret is over, your ministering angel you need to be saved is the Holy Spirit.

Who Is the Holy Spirit?
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/20950-holy-spirit-mercia/

Mark Of The Beast - his Name is the charachter/image of the medievil popes (now modern man)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/4997-mark-of-the-beast/page__pid__439951__st__120#entry439951

Historicists - Dual Fulfillment (seven thunders = more literal warning)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/14248-historicists-revelation-has-a-dual-fulfillment/

#32 Mercia2

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 11:36 AM

So even though everyone secretly knows I am right, especially Fortigurn, you are all happy to leave the Holy Spirit unidentified just as "Gods Power"?
"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” = "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?" = "Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who maketh His angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire" Psalms (104:1) = "They saw what seemed to be flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them." Acts 2 - the secret is over, your ministering angel you need to be saved is the Holy Spirit.

Who Is the Holy Spirit?
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/20950-holy-spirit-mercia/

Mark Of The Beast - his Name is the charachter/image of the medievil popes (now modern man)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/4997-mark-of-the-beast/page__pid__439951__st__120#entry439951

Historicists - Dual Fulfillment (seven thunders = more literal warning)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/14248-historicists-revelation-has-a-dual-fulfillment/

#33 Huldah

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 09:48 PM

No, but I don't think Christadelphians do just leave it unidentified as just "God's power", when you get into a detailed discussion, they bring out more nuances than that.

Mercia, are you intending to edit this thread? Please let me know which one you are going to edit. :wave:
"But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life." John 4.14

#34 Flappie

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 09:56 PM

Mercia, could you also please shorten your signature to about 1/4 of what it is now? Thanks.
"The first condition of immortality is death."
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#35 Mercia2

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 10:38 PM

No, but I don't think Christadelphians do just leave it unidentified as just "God's power", when you get into a detailed discussion, they bring out more nuances than that.

Mercia, are you intending to edit this thread? Please let me know which one you are going to edit. :wave:


It is not nuanced, the Holy Spirit is your ministering angel, without which Jesus will say He did not know us.
"he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit"
The born of water and Spirit does not mean literal water (Isaiah 44:3; John 7:38-39).

To be saved, at the most deeply sincere moment of your entire life, we have to fall on our knees before God, repent with our HEART and ask for the Holy Spirit (Luke 11:13) - in private.

Why has no one got testimony like this below? Tell me Huldah, do you think I have made this up?..

Hi Grace

I can only talk from my own experience, as I have yet to speak to another born again Christian about this, or ask what happened to them although the i have heard somewhere the term "convicted' - which exactly summed it up for me.

I will explain as best I can...
I had done a 12 week Christadelphian Bible course from a mailshot I received, and prior to doing that course I had fallen away for many years (I was never baptised as a child or anything though I was close to God then) but during my adult life I had began believing the Bible was just a book of fables. Anyway, just before the last lesson of the 12 week course, I had been reading my Bible almost 24/7 as by now the Christadelphians had really woke me up to the fact the Bible was most definately the Word of God (which I am eternally grateful for), and the evening before the last lesson I had been praying and reading and I can remember holding out my hands and saying out load "please God send me your Holy Spirit" - it was the first time I had ever said it and it was moments before the last Christadelphian lesson began.

Anyway, within seconds I felt a overwheling feeling of shame for all the past things I had done. The only way to describe it properly is to say it was a conviction, or that I was convicted by the Holy Spirit and it was for me overwhelming. Although perhaps more so for me, as when i was 12 years old I had an angelic experience where an angel said I would have a veil of forgetfulness put over me about certain things, and that I would fall away for many years, but that i would have this veil removed again when I turned back to God (thanks to the Christadelphians in later life), and then I would be able to remember certain things that I was not suppossed to until then. And as soon as I asked for the Spirit, within moments I could remember them and even picture them like on a TV screen in my mind - as if they happened yesterday (or that day), it was so powerful. I think the Bible says somewhere about the Holy Spirit bringing the apostles into remebrance of things the Lord said.

Anyway, about half an hour later I was in the lecture room for the last Christadelphian lesson. And I had suddenly began to remember all these things I had seen during this angelic experience about 18 years earlier, and other things as well to do with a papal medal the pope gave my dad, and that had happened to me years ago like it was yesterday, while at the same time I had this overwhelming feeling of shame for all the things I had done during the years I had fallen away, and for me it was so powerful i was just sitting their physically shaking, and I can remember telling Paul (a lecturer) just out of the blue 'i have done some terrible things, I have done some terrible things' it was like I just needed to confess everything and purge myself of the past and I couldnt stop saying this out load (I had a girlfriend who was pregnant and we both decided to have an abortion when I was 18) and I was really refering to that when I was saying I had done some terrible things which must have sounded really strange, but i just couldnt keep it in as I was so aware that i did not deserve to be saved, like I say it was this overwhelming feeling of conviction and overwhelming shame which sort of lead to a feeling of absolute purpose and conviction that I was not ever going to fall again. And all this was within an hour of holding out my hands and saying 'please God send me your Holy spirit'.

But for me it also coincided precisely with being able to remember an angelic experience I had when i was 12, and all that was seen and said as if it happened that morning, so it was an enourmously powerful experience, although also because of the angelic experience (I talked with an angel when I was 12) so more so for me than most i dont know? As I was shown something that was too frightening for a 12 year old boy to live with at that age in 1982 and afterwards asked the angel if he could make me forget what I had seen, and he said he would "put a veil of forgetfulness over me" until as an adult I would "turn once more to Jesus" and then i would have the"veil of forgetfulness removed" and be able to remember as clear as if it were yesterday. And that happened within seconds of asking God for the Holy Spirit when I was 28 years of age. So being able to remember this at the same time as feeling this overwhelming conviction of past deeds was so strong that i couldnt stop shaking, and I could not tell anyone about it either.
During that last lecture I was sitting their shaking all through the lecture, and at the end I asked to speak to the guy teaching which helped as I needed to speak to someone.

For me it was very powerful, and at first overwhelming.
Perhaps more so because as soon as I had asked for the Holy Spirit i was brought into remembrance of certain things that were overwhelingly powerful, and like I say that happened specifically when I asked for the Holy Spirit on that day which was also when he knew I would.

Grace, do not let anyone tell you that Christians who are born again do not receive the Holy Spirit today. You cannot receive something you dont believe exists.
Water baptism is nothing but an external ceremony of the flesh unless at the same time you also ask God to send you His Spirit. All you have to do is ask, and you can do this in your bedroom today.

If anyone has never done this - then do this, and believe it. And see for yourselves. Do not go through life without ever asking whatever you do.

God bless
Russ


http://www.btdf.org/...-of-the-spirit/

Failure to specifically identify the Holy Spirit as your minstering angel (re-read what the symbolism of the Bible I posted clearly reveals above), is catastrophic for your community. John Thomas had not identified the Holy Spirit, "nuances" are another excuse to avoid what the Bible really tells us to do. Infact claiming 'nuances' when something is so clear as above is the heart being deceitful. Fortunately I did what the Bible actually told me to do before organised religion could get its hands on me to try and tell me not to do it or it meant something else. I just read that I must repent and "ask for the Holy Spirit", so I did exactly what I was told. I even sprinkled some water on my head from the tap just incase water baptish was necessary (and I was alone).
"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” = "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?" = "Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who maketh His angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire" Psalms (104:1) = "They saw what seemed to be flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them." Acts 2 - the secret is over, your ministering angel you need to be saved is the Holy Spirit.

Who Is the Holy Spirit?
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/20950-holy-spirit-mercia/

Mark Of The Beast - his Name is the charachter/image of the medievil popes (now modern man)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/4997-mark-of-the-beast/page__pid__439951__st__120#entry439951

Historicists - Dual Fulfillment (seven thunders = more literal warning)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/14248-historicists-revelation-has-a-dual-fulfillment/

#36 Huldah

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:05 PM

Oh no, I don't think you made it up. You experienced it, whatever it all means. I'm not really convinced by "the Holy Sprit=an angel" interpretation, although I know that is a popular view with some christadelphians. I'm still studying it.

Edited by Huldah, 14 May 2012 - 11:05 PM.

"But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life." John 4.14

#37 Mercia2

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:07 PM

Oh no, I don't think you made it up. You experienced it, whatever it all means. I'm not really convinced by "the Holy Sprit=an angel" interpretation, although I know that is a popular view with some christadelphians. I'm still studying it.


If you are not convinced you are not reading what I wrote above. Please pray about it and then re-read it slowly.
"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” = "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?" = "Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who maketh His angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire" Psalms (104:1) = "They saw what seemed to be flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them." Acts 2 - the secret is over, your ministering angel you need to be saved is the Holy Spirit.

Who Is the Holy Spirit?
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/20950-holy-spirit-mercia/

Mark Of The Beast - his Name is the charachter/image of the medievil popes (now modern man)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/4997-mark-of-the-beast/page__pid__439951__st__120#entry439951

Historicists - Dual Fulfillment (seven thunders = more literal warning)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/14248-historicists-revelation-has-a-dual-fulfillment/

#38 Mercia2

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:29 PM

But for me it also coincided precisely with being able to remember an angelic experience I had when i was 12, and all that was seen and said as

For somereason I thought I was 12 in 1982 but if I am 40 now I later worked out I must have been 10. Also, I keep saying I was born again in 1998, but it was when the Kosovo war was on and I think that was 1999?

Huldah, the key points are the angel of His prescence is called the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is Gods power, yet the OT also clearly says the angels are Gods power, the Bible says the role of the Holy Spirit is to minister to us, but that is what our minister angel does. The OT symbolism for Gods ministering angels is the same as the symbolism for the Holy Spirit in the book of Acts. It is an absolute no brainer. On top of all that the personification of the idea of Satan is the opposite personification idea of the Holy Spirit, so if any church is going to manage to grasp the blindingly obvious it must surely be the Christadelphians?

The Holy Spirit is NO mystery, it is a personification for Gods Holy angels.

Edit: without which Jesus will say He did not know us.

That bit cannot be completely true because I know the Holy Spirit does know some of you. As you are named and known, "there are some [Christadelphians] that love Jesus and Jesus wants to save". You need to work out what that means, I am quoting an angel of God here. But he also said "not everyone who thinks they are saved are saved" so the implication of this is you are saved without the Holy Spirit? I just want people to do what I did as I know then their is no guessing. Christadelphians need to go back to what John Thomas taught. Look what happened to modern Christadelphianism, it got Genesis 1 wrong because it departed from what John Thomas taught and yet on a spiritual level his understanding of it was excellent. Whose idea was it to condemn all idiots and children? Did that originate with John Thomas?

My guess is the more I research John Thomas work the more I will realise how good it was, because even though he may not claim to be inspired, I know in part he was, (because he was a non denom who prayed for help to God), just like me. Now I have to help him finish his work and save his people. Will you help?
Can I get a list of Christadelphian charities from you please Huldah?

The Holy Spirit has told me the Christadelphians will be judged by the example of the first century Church, by their "zeal", (the word zeal was used many times). Do you have any idea of what that means? It means action is required in a massive way. Huldah, I absolutely promise you in the Kingdom age you will find what I have told you the Holy Spirit has said is true.

Edit: "there are some [Christadelphians] that love Jesus and Jesus wants to save".

That is not an exact quote, it was "some of them [Christadelphians] love Jesus and Jesus wants to save", He did not say the word "Christadelphians", but this was when the angel/Holy Spirit was talking about you.

Will you help?


Edit: I should not have said that because the angel told me who will help and what to do. I was being wilful again.

Edited by Mercia2, 15 May 2012 - 01:46 AM.

"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” = "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?" = "Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who maketh His angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire" Psalms (104:1) = "They saw what seemed to be flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them." Acts 2 - the secret is over, your ministering angel you need to be saved is the Holy Spirit.

Who Is the Holy Spirit?
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/20950-holy-spirit-mercia/

Mark Of The Beast - his Name is the charachter/image of the medievil popes (now modern man)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/4997-mark-of-the-beast/page__pid__439951__st__120#entry439951

Historicists - Dual Fulfillment (seven thunders = more literal warning)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/14248-historicists-revelation-has-a-dual-fulfillment/

#39 Huldah

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 12:51 AM

I am confused now Mercia, because you have since edited that post...

"Will you help?" becomes Angel told you who will help and what to do? So angel has given you names? Me no get it. :(

I don't know all the Christadelphian charities, but I'll start a new thread and people can add to it.
"But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life." John 4.14




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